Jan, I’ve got company over (daughter Noelle), but I wanted to throw in some thoughts.

First, I want to caution some regarding overly harsh of judgment on individual churches, and individual members thereof. Statements like, “..most all of them think they’ve got a corner on the market ” , and ” ..their own little empires”, and so on are, at best, counterproductive, and patently untrue, and at worst, harsh and judgmental, as well as mean-spirited in and of themselves. I have, in the past, been a champeen church surfer..and have been in wonderful and not-so-wonderful, congregations and parishes. By and large, most do NOT think that they have a corner on the market. Granted, this is an unscientific sampling, as I tend to gravitate toward congregations that have some earmarks of sincerity in faith on first face. Nonetheless, I find such judgements often a reflection on the person making them, rather than on their object.

That is not to say that I do not think that inward focus is not a problem in the church at large..it is, as a product of the human condition of the members of the church..kindof goes back to your reflections on diversity in the congregations. This seems to be an ongoing problem in the church. Those who are true devotees of and to the Kingdom of God are often those who carry much of the load, and struggle to find ways to get through to, enkindle, lead and or drag others who may, sadly, be content with something less than a deep and genuine faith.

Where do I see that focus on the big “C”?

In any congregation which; reaches out to the community around it in any genuine way in the name of Christ..food and clothing banks, help for the indigent, hosting other language/culture services; also churches which reach out to those suffering for their faith in other lands, to those suffering in poverty in other lands, as well as in “alien” communities nearby(eg, a suburban church with a dedicated inner city ministry…therefore stretching focus on those different than self/ves). Just a couple off the top of my head examples.

Second caution..the activity in and of itself does not necessarily mean inward change. People may “support” a mission or ministry which is directed outside the local community for many reasons including self-glorification,etc, without “getting it” ..this is the second part of “faith without action is dead; action without faith is worse, it’s pointless” We read in scripture..”Without faith it is impossible to please Him(God).”

okay, enough from me

blessings, Jan…jim

Oh, Jan..I, perhaps am the one who needs to apologize…I was actually referring to bits of the statements of father ryan and and intheson. I perhaps should have cautioned against taking my cautions for more than they were meant to be..just little roadsigns advising of potential problems. I could not possibly think that you were condemning churches..you have far too eloquently established the opposite in your posts.I,too have seen that in churches (ie, people protecting their little empires). My concern is of some developing the feeling that this is the motivation for all in the churches; painting with a broad brush dipped in the bitter tincture of cynicism.

Amazing, isn’t it? 2000 years have gone since Jesus chastised the religious rulers for “lording it over” people in the “church”, yet mankind’s weaknesses are so uncomfortably the same. 

browsing around my subscriptions list, my eyes were opened to another aspect of the way(s) in which we, as believers, shut ourselves off from the greater picture, and, conversely, suggestions for ways that we can 1) see a larger part of the picture while 2) strengthening our own faith, and 3) build touchstones which can be used to reach and understand others.

I’ll let the author say it in her words:

“Monday, January 29, 2007

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Written for my journal on Eastern Orthodoxy for my interim class
It’s been a bit frustrating for me to be learning all these new ideas and yet feeling like I have barely anyone who I can actually talk to. It has been very helpful that my roommate has taken the same class as me, because we both understand what each other is learning and the mental struggles we are going through. However, every time I’ve tried to take the ideas and arguments back to friends it seems that a wall is placed between the concepts I present and themselves *. This is frustrating and disheartening, but at the same time, I completely understand it. I wonder how many times I have done that as well. Recently I have found myself wishing that everyone could take this class and be challenged in their faiths, that people would realize being Orthodox or Catholic or Protestant isn’t the point, but that the heart of a person searching for God is what is truly valuable. I got so mad once in high school because a Protestant family I knew refused to let my Catholic friend come with me to visit their house, because they felt Catholicism was a cult. I cannot even begin to describe how much this angered me. It seems that too many Christians do this nowadays: they place God only within what they know. Anything aside from that is of the devil, according to them. I don’t see the love of Christ in this attitude. But now, not only does it frustrate me- it saddens me. My prayer for this sort of person (Orthodox, Protestant, or whatever), and for every person, is that they would allow themselves to be challenged. Every Christian needs a good shaking-up. In fact, I feel like it would be better to study (and by this I mean, to learn about, not to practice) Wicca and Buddhism and Mormonism in order to both empathize with others and challenge our own faiths, so that we can form deeper and more sincere relationships with Christ. Sitting inside a shell your whole life and intentionally being naive in order to push “evil” away, will eventually push God away as well.
*(EDIT: not to say they were being closeminded,…but because I wanted to urge everyone to branch out and learn and understand things they never normally would, because through this class, I realized how much more you can come to know about God by doing so ) “…thefirstnoelle

It’s an odd feeling, Jan..I guess I AM proud, but the feeling is more one of privilege to know this person. I literally find myself responding..”Who IS this young woman?” I’ve told my kids more than once, how grateful I feel that God has allowed me the privilege of knowing them. Maybe I take too little credit for how they’re turning out, but I truly believe the it’s ultimately all God’s doing.

I was a little reluctant to even link her statements..you know..the gushing parent syndrome…but I really liked what she had to say.

blessings, Jan

jim